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Welcome to Raising the Bar with RebuttalPR, the podcast where we elevate the stories of the plaintiff's bar and dive into the key trends shaping the civil justice system today. I'm your host, Ray DeLorenzi, and in each episode, we'll bring you insightful interviews with leading attorneys, expert perspectives on current legal events, and in-depth discussions on the issues that matter most. Now, let's jump in.
Always put the client first, and you'll be okay. Do what's best for the client, not what's best for me or the law firm. Be honest, 100% honest. And if we make a mistake, just tell the client I'm sorry. And this goes for all of us in our lives. The power of an apology or the power of being honest, that diffuses everything, and your clients are really happy.
Ray: Welcome to a new episode of Raising the Bar with RebuttalPR. Today I am joined by Bruce Plaxen, well-regarded, respected, one of the best trial lawyers in Maryland, one could say in the country. But, you know, we'll just keep going. More importantly, he is the becoming president of the American Association for Justice. As we tape this today, in about 10 days, he's going to be sworn in as the next president. So, congratulations, Bruce, on that. And welcome to the podcast.
Bruce: Thanks, Ray. I think I'm going to take you around the country to introduce me as one of the best lawyers in the country.
Ray: Yeah, I know. It's just for the record. We'll cut out that clip for you. You can play it. You know, it's like your walk-on song. So, to start, Bruce, how does it feel, especially for those unfamiliar? It takes years to climb the ranks to become president. It's not like you're president-elect and then president. It's like a six-year kind of ladder. How does it feel?
Bruce: You know, I feel like I've gone from being the wonder kid, the youngest one in the room, to being the oldest one in the room with the institutional history. When I first got on AAJ's board almost 25 years ago, and when I served as the state president, I felt like I was doing all these great things at a young age, and now I feel like I'm the old man in the room sometimes.
Ray: You know, Bruce, in knowing you and also knowing your background, it's almost like you have two professional lives. You have Bruce Plaxen, the trial lawyer, but also Bruce Plaxen, the legislative advocate. And I want to talk about that because you've done a ton of work in Annapolis related to legislation in Maryland. And then that preceded all the work you've done at the federal level for AAJ. To start, though, why did you become a trial lawyer in the first place?
Bruce: So I think I fell into it a little bit. I went to work for a general practice firm in College Park, Maryland that had five partners that all did different aspects. And they hired me to do personal injury cases. And that's all I did. So from day one, I had an expertise. I was trying all the auto cases, the slip and falls, the products cases. Every PI case was mine because the partner who had done that had started focusing on just the medical malpractice. So I became a specialist right out of law school. And that's how I became a personal injury lawyer.
And it fit my personality because, unlike some other areas of law, there's a winner. There's a winner and a loser, and it's fun to win. It's really a lot of fun to go somewhere and you go home and say, I won today. I won something. And it's also really meaningful. I was looking back on my career a little bit with me becoming president of the national. And you make a difference, too. You make a difference in someone's life. You can actually look at something and pinpoint it and go, I helped that person. And legislatively, it's the same thing. You make a difference in other people's lives, maybe not my clients, but overall, I think that the work of MAJ and my work in Annapolis has helped countless Marylanders get a fair shake in our civil justice system.
Ray: So, when you started out as a lawyer at that general practice firm, at what point did you say, you know what, we're going to go out on my own? And then you obviously created Plaxen Adler, now Plaxen Adler Muncie. What was that process for you?
Bruce: So I was out of law school only two years when I started my law firm. I was 26 years old. And the senior partner who was doing the medical malpractice part kept saying, man, we're killing it on this personal injury part. We should go out and just form a special personal injury firm. And he kept kind of teasing me. And then eventually I was bringing in so much business, and I was bringing in more money than any of the partners in the firm, that I was like, I can do this. And at 26 years old, it took a lot of moxie when I'm not from Maryland, I don't have family contacts, I don't have any money, and I opened this office on Route 1 in Hyattsville, Maryland. That was me answering the phone, licking stamps, and working with a used typewriter. And I really mean typewriter, because it was 1985.
Ray: Were you, in some ways, ignorant of the risk in a good way? Or you knew what you were getting into, and it was like, this is going to be a slog, but it's worth it?
Bruce: So this is actually how the thought process goes. The firm I was working for was underpaying me, and I was only two years out, so that worked to my benefit, because if I really crapped the bed and this didn't work, I could get a job for the same amount of money. It's not like I was walking away from big law with a huge paycheck. I figured worst comes to worst, if I do this for six months and I'm not making any money, I can go back and get a job. I can crawl back to the same place or somewhere similar. It wasn't that big a risk. It felt like a big risk because I had just bought my first home and my first kid had been born. So it felt like a big risk, but in retrospect, I don't know that it was.
Ray: At what point did it click for you when you started to affirm that, you know what, this can work?
Bruce: I don't want this to sound immodest, but pretty much right away, because I was bringing in business and I was hustling. I was giving out my card to every server and waitress that I knew, and I was coaching little league when I didn't even have kids in the league, and I was just bringing in business. The business came. I was worried that the scariest part is, will the cases come? Not could I handle them. And within six months, I hired my first paralegal. A few months later, it grew again, and the firm grew. It didn't grow huge, because that's not the kind of firm I wanted to build. I wanted to build a small firm, but within a few months I knew I was going to be okay.
Ray: Yeah. I think when you know — and firms come in different shapes and sizes — I think though as they become larger, it's hard to keep in touch with your clients. When you're growing your firm, though, what's your philosophy in individually representing people in that relationship and guiding them through essentially what may be the worst thing that's ever happened to them?
Bruce: So, always put the client first. And that's what I've told my partners, my associates, anyone that's worked here. Always put the client first, and you'll be okay. Do what's best for the client, not what's best for me or the law firm. Be honest, 100% honest. And if we make a mistake, just tell the client I'm sorry. And this goes for all of us in our lives. The power of an apology or the power of being honest and saying, hey, I should have called you back yesterday, or yes, that letter was supposed to go out yesterday, but it's going out today. That diffuses everything, and your clients are really happy.
And making ourselves accessible — back in the 80s, lawyers were a different breed. I mean, we were barely coming out of a time when the Supreme Court finally let us advertise. And lawyers like me, I was making home appointments. I was making it as easy as possible for my clients. If they were in an accident, I would go to their home. I'd visit them in the hospital. I'd see them at night. I'd see them on weekends. And there weren't a lot of lawyers doing that. It's more common now. But I was able to do this and make the clients feel good. And what I always say when clients say, hey, I don't want to bother you, or I'm sorry, I'm being a pest — I always say, I work for you. You're not a bother, and I want you to be a squeaky wheel because I want to work on your case, and I want to know what's happening. So that's the philosophy we live by here.
Ray: So I think there's a misconception amongst lawyers that really their practice is what happens at the negotiating table or in the courtroom. And I think you have an appreciation of the impact of what the legislature does on the practice of law. When did that first strike you, though? And how did you really become involved? At least let's talk about Maryland in lobbying and legislation.
Bruce: So shortly after I opened my firm in 1985, the trial lawyers had no lobbyists and very little presence in Maryland. And in 1986, we got slammed with a cap on damages, and we got killed in the legislature. Tort reform came in and it was awful. And MAJ got organized, and that was around the time I got on their board of governors and saw that we needed to have a strong presence in Maryland, in Annapolis. And within a few years, I was legislative chair. I became president. I was PAC chair for 25 years. And it was like turning around a big boat. It happened slowly, but eventually you're going in the right direction. And Maryland has not had a lot of tort reform in the last 40 years. We're still trying to undo this cap on damages. We still have some bad laws. We can do better in Maryland. It's still a flawed civil justice system. We're doing better. And I feel like I'm on the wall protecting you.
Ray: How do you feel like the perception of the trial bar has changed over that time?
Bruce: We are so well respected — even if we don't get what we want in Maryland, we have built a reputation of telling the truth, being honest, and never coming in and pulling the wool over a legislator's eye. You can look back, and we come with facts, unlike the insurance industry or the chamber, and we're going to give you the straight scoop. And if you want to do what's right, then you'll do what's right. And I've had relationships with governors and legislators, and they don't always agree with us, but I think we are well respected. I think it's different from the days where the trial bar was looked down on almost like a used car salesman or an ambulance chaser. I think that's gone. I think we have a whole new generation of legislators in Annapolis that want to do the right thing. It's not always politically expedient. Every time I go down and testify on a bill, there's a dozen entities on the other side. We're the only ones there for consumers.
Ray: Tell me how you then got involved with the American Association for Justice, AAJ, which at the time would have been the Association of Trial Lawyers of America.
Bruce: So I joined shortly after 1985 when I opened my law firm. And for about 15 years, I was what you might call a mailbox member. I got Trial magazine. I read the articles and I really didn't know what they did. And in 2000, I became president-elect of the state trial lawyer association. And I thought, I really ought to go to my first convention and find out what the national does if I'm going to be president of the state. And honestly, I've said this at many AAJ events, and I speak all around the country. And I tell potential members that it changed the arc of my professional career and my personal life, being around such great lawyers that honestly, it's not hyperbole, that energize me, that inspire me, and I see the good things that they are doing across the country and around the world. And that's how I first got involved with AAJ. And I don't do anything slowly. I became president of the Council of Presidents, which is president of all the state TLA presidents, pretty much right away. And I came home and I told my kids, I said, you know, I'm now president of the Council of Presidents. And I explained to them what that was. So they said, oh, so you're president of all the presidents.
Ray: Were there any lawyers that you felt took you under their wing at AAJ that stand out to you now that you look back at it?
Bruce: Lenny Orman from Maryland was a great friend of mine, and Lenny encouraged me to get involved with AAJ for years, even before I went to my first convention. Lenny was really well respected around the country. Lenny was this amazing guy who had landmark cases in Maryland, even though he was a sole practitioner. He shared an office at one time with the former mayor of Baltimore, Tommy D'Alesandro Jr., who was Nancy Pelosi's brother. And great things came out of that office. Lenny was just a really inspiring guy. My friend Rob Jenner showed me the ropes at AAJ. He'd been going for years. And one of the most amazing things I saw, from my first convention and then the auto-tort seminar in New Orleans — if you're a young lawyer, or a not-so-young lawyer, and you heard Russ Herman in his prime, that was pretty amazing stuff to see Russ. And we can't all be Russ Herman or Gerry Spence, because we can't come in with cowboy boots or tell Bible stories. But it told you to find your own voice. And it gave you a courtroom presence. So I would say Russ Herman was really inspiring.
Ray: What made you then — let's say fast forward, that was 2000, we're getting into 2015-ish — say, I want to be in leadership here? What was pulling you to do that?
Bruce: So it's also a little fortuitous. When I became president of the Council of Presidents, it got you a seat on the Executive Committee. So I didn't deserve to be on the Executive Committee, but it's something that AAJ does — the caucuses get a rep, and the state TLAs get a rep, and the council president gets a seat on the executive committee. So here I am at my first or second convention, and I'm on the executive committee, basically like being in the back room with leaders, and I'm sitting next to people like Ken Suggs and Todd Smith and Fred Baron, and they're coming up and formulating Trial Lawyers Care the day after the 9/11 crisis, and it's pretty exhilarating. And once you've been in the back room, it's kind of like Earl Weaver going back to coach first base. Earl doesn't come back and coach first base, you know? Like, you've been in the back room, you're in leadership. I got on the board of governors and a year later, I was like, geez, I kind of miss being in the back room and knowing what's going on. So I ran at large to get on the executive committee, and it was also kind of a lot of moxie, a little ballsy to think that I could do that. But then I ran year after year after year for an at-large seat on the executive committee, and that's what I did. If you go back, I think I've served with every president since Leo Boyle and Mary Alexander — served on their executive committee. So I've seen a lot. I'm sort of like the institutional history of AAJ right now.
Ray: As much as a president can come in with an agenda — and I think a lot of presidents have had agendas and then events take over, and you just mentioned Trial Lawyers Care at 9/11 — what is your sort of vision or philosophy? And I'm asking to preview your speech, I guess.
Bruce: So I just had this discussion this morning with some senior staff of AAJ, and I said, you know, my goal was to be at the Christmas or Hanukkah party with Doug Emhoff and Kamala. So that didn't work out at the White House. I don't think right now I have found my moment, my key project, because six months ago, none of us knew we were going to be fighting to preserve the rule of law, that law schools would be under attack, that law firms would be disciplined for who they represented. Or just last week, we had a fight to prevent attacks on loans to law firms, or that chemical companies would think they were entitled to complete immunity for pesticides. So I don't know what's going to come up next week, right? We may have to circle back when I have my signature moment. Someone asked me, what do you want to do when you're president? And the easy answer I told them was, I just want to preserve the civil justice system and save democracy. So that would be okay. Save democracy. That's all, only that.
Ray: What role do you think AAJ plays, though, in that, especially in a moment like now?
Bruce: Some people are upset with the capitulation of some law firms, but I have seen AAJ and the ABA and other groups really step up. And I think this country wants to save the rule of law. I don't think people want to see lawyers, law firms, law schools being pressured on what they're allowed to do. I mean, that just goes contrary to our system. I think AAJ will continue to lead in the fight to preserve civil justice as much as we can.
Ray: So we talk about the rule of law, but at the same time, you have a lot of Trump-aligned legislators who are also more of a populist strain and have been allies to not necessarily AAJ, but to AAJ's issues. How do you square that circle in your head?
Bruce: So this may come as a surprise to your viewers or listeners, but one of the best speeches I've seen on the rule of law was given by Josh Hawley. I saw him a few months ago in person give a speech that nothing will enforce good behavior like a lawsuit. That the courts have to remain open and that the corporate wrongdoers must be held accountable. That's the only way to make the country safer. So align that with the raised fist on January 6th, and you do have an enigma. I mean, I think that's what you're talking about, people like that, that are coming around to the rule of law, and thank God they are, because if you believe in the Constitution — like some of these Republicans claim to believe in the Constitution strictly — the Seventh Amendment is a pretty important amendment. They have to protect the right to trial by jury. So we'll see.
Ray: What makes you hopeful about the future of the civil justice system and its trajectory, whether that is over the course of your presidency or beyond?
Bruce: Oh, I attribute this to my wife. It's kind of a mantra in our house that goodness triumphs over evil. That at some point — and I'm going to get Martin Luther King's quote wrong — but the arc of justice has to bend back toward what's right. And people don't want to do it. I just have to have more faith in the people in this country and legislators. I mean, right now, they're more afraid of Trump than they are of Democrats. And part of that is the way that we redistrict — the gerrymandering. Most of them are in safe districts, so they're more worried about a primary opponent than a general election opponent. But things change. Things change in this country. It wasn't that long ago that California was a red state until the 80s or 90s. I think Clinton was the first one to win California in a long time. And we're seeing Virginia go from purple to blue. We're seeing — who would have thought we had two Democratic senators in the state of Georgia? So we'll see. Things swing back and forth, I hope.
Ray: Yeah. As you say, things change. I want to talk about that generationally for a moment. You started your firm in 1985. You have young lawyers now that I think are looking at the plaintiff's bar more than they once did versus going into big law. What advice do you give young lawyers today who want to represent individuals and not go the maybe typical defense trajectory?
Bruce: I think that's one of the most exciting changes. When I went to law school, the placement office wouldn't even tell you that there were options other than big law. That was the goal: to get to a Wall Street firm that would pay you. And I think that young people are looking at a balance in their lifestyle, in their home, that they don't want to work the hours that it takes, and that there's a certain amount of job satisfaction and rewards. I'm really excited that we're seeing plaintiffs' law student associations being formed in law schools all around the country. And hopefully some of the best and brightest will come straight out of law school and work for firms like mine. I have three partners in their 30s. If we got them on your show, I'm sure they would tell you that they made the right decision, that big law isn't for everybody. So that's one of the exciting things about looking at young lawyers — that unlike maybe my generation, they're doing the right thing.
Ray: So when you get sworn in as president, then you start hitting the road, because I know being president involves a ton of travel. What's the pitch to lawyers who are not members of AAJ, why they need to get on board?
Bruce: All right. So there's two pitches. The pitch we've been making for years is we're going to save the civil justice system, which we are, that you need us in Washington. Your state TLAs need us as a partner to help you in your states. Our state affairs department is brilliant. People like Dan Hinkle and his team. And it's doing all the right things. And that resonates. But it also doesn't resonate with someone who's not a member, because we're going to do that anyway, whether we have their dues or not. So if you want to sit back and be lazy or let someone else carry the freight, your practice is still going to be saved by AAJ. So that's the pitch. And it's a do-gooder pitch, and it's do the right thing. And AAJ is here for you. And unlike any other organization that provides CLE, AAJ has an advocacy wing. So that's why you should be a member of AAJ.
The more effective pitch is that the return on investment of an AAJ membership is exponential, because the networking and the relationships you will make will make you a better lawyer. Your cases will be worth more money. You will have friends around the country that you can co-counsel with, and you will get referrals from lawyers all around the country, especially if you come to a couple of conventions and meet people from out of state. As much money as you will spend on dues and conventions, it will come back to you in multiples. So there's the do-gooder pitch, which should encourage people to join, but it's also good for your business.
Ray: With that, Bruce, again, I want to congratulate you on finally becoming president of AAJ. Well-deserved. The organization is going to be in great hands. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.
Bruce: Thanks for having me.
Ray: And I'll see you in San Francisco, right?
Bruce: Absolutely. All right, thanks, Ray.
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